Today we’re joined by a teacher who’s been teaching 35 years for all different grades. We’re going to discuss the radical changes taking place across the country, why teachers are being targeted, how much things have changed since she first started, and if any of it is worth it. Oh yeah, and she’s my mom. [This was originally going to run two fridays ago as a companion piece to the debate but the tornadoes in Alabama had other plans]
1. Thanks for coming. You know you’re hard to book. Your agent barely returned my calls.
Teacher: Yeah, we have to make this quick. You have thirty minutes son [Laughter].
2. Your debate a few weeks back was one of the most widely read items the site has ever had–
Teacher: I’m telling you, you need to start paying me something. Lord knows I won’t make it teaching.
3. Speaking of broke teachers, tell people that might not know what’s going on with your retirement and other benefits.
Teacher: The new legislature would like to see them gone in the state of Alabama. They’d like to cut medical benefits as much as they possibly can. They would like to scale back our retirement, actually control our retirement. Eliminate tenure so they can replace an older, more expensive teacher like me with a cheaper one straight out of college. And they want our union [AEA or the Alabama Education Association] gone. They can make all these changes and more without the union to run interference.
4. The argument we’ve heard about getting rid of tenure is that it will somehow be better for the kids. That they’ll get better teachers.
Teacher: You can’t put kids first by putting teachers last. People that don’t know a whole lot about teaching say that tenure protects bad teachers and encourages them to do nothing. I’d like to know how having some job security promotes bad performance. That’s a pretty cynical view that says unless a principal is breathing down our neck threatening to fire us, we won’t do our jobs. And in my experience it’s almost the exact opposite.
The best teachers are the ones who have a little bit of job security and can manage their classroom without being scared to death of getting sued by a kid or getting a principal that just doesn’t like them. People don’t realize that tenure doesn’t mean you have a job for life in public schools. You can still get fired, it’s just that a principal or super intendant has to have cause, which is what it should be for every job in America. It can’t just be that they don’t like you or that you didn’t kiss up to the right person. Schools are very political, and sometimes just punishing the wrong kid–like a city councilman’s kid or someone who is seen as important in the community–can get you in much more trouble than not doing your job.
5. People say that teacher’s unions are too political, but aren’t schools political even without them?
Teacher: Absolutely. As I said before, schools are just generally more political now than they’ve ever been. Certain kids are given special treatment because some parents are just much more likely to sue the school than they would have been 30 or 35 years ago. Speaking of tenure, I know it would be a bad idea to take that away from teachers because I’ve seen what happens when you take it away from principals. Currently principals don’t have tenure and it doesn’t make them more effective at their job, it makes them less. They have to be a lot more careful and a lot more political because yelling at the wrong kid could bring a lawsuit or cause a parent to make a call to the school board demanding they be fired. It’s really hurt the principal’s ability to be as effective as they could be, and I know it would hurt a teacher’s.
As for more direct politics, everything in America has become pretty political. There are now special interests and lobbying groups all fighting for a piece of the pie, and if you don’t have that you won’t get anything. AEA helps pass the education budget in Alabama, and they fight for every dollar they can get down in Montgomery [the capital]. Without them there’s no question our education budget would get drastically reduced.
6. A common complaint about the unions is that they favor Democrats over Republicans. Even some members of AEA don’t like that. But they don’t really get what’s at stake.
Teacher: The unions will favor any party that wants anything to do with them. If Republicans were friendlier to public education, the AEA would be happy to work with them. As is, Republican legislators in Alabama are just not friendly to public education. The attack we’re under right now shows that. People always say “Don’t make it political, all politicians are after teachers” but that’s just not factually true. I wish it was, it’d be easier to just lump them all in together, but it’s not both parties.
Last Fall, the Republican Party made major gains across the state and we’re facing one of the worst times for teachers that’s ever been. Recently, we’ve seen a big push for the legislature to control our retirement. Not to just reduce it or whatever, but for them to control it! Right now AEA controls it and has done a great job investing in things that have turned a profit. Much better than privatized 401ks or IRAs during the last few years. But the Republican legislature wants to appoint people to our retirement board…probably so they can make a big mess out of it and get rich while we suffer. I know teachers that don’t like AEA at all, but nobody supports that. Even the teachers complaining about AEA being too Democrat would never want this change to our retirement system.
7. Teachers have had a target on their back for a long time in Alabama. How is this time different?
Teacher: They have tried for years to bring in charter schools–which is terrible for public schools–and get control of teacher retirement. To “reallocate” that money towards things they believe in more like corporate tax cuts or creating administrator jobs for people that donated to their political campaigns. The big difference this time is that it’s nationwide. You look at what’s happening to teachers in Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida, and it’s just endless.
Typically, education unions are one of the Democrat’s largest fundraisers. Mostly because Republican’s don’t really believe in public education and have really pushed charter schools and private school vouchers more than passing a healthy public education budget. So as punishment for this, Republicans are really going after teacher unions and teacher benefits. They’d like to take that money and put it in corporate tax cuts as they have in Wisconsin and Florida. It’s the same old debate, public sector vs. private sector, unions vs. corporations. They say those tax cuts will create jobs but if it’s 16,000 a year Wal-Mart jobs with no benefits is that worth stripping teachers of their retirement? I don’t think it is. Alabama has one of the lowest corporate, land, and rich individual tax rates in the country. You can’t afford to keep them that low without taking that money from somewhere else. Unfortunately, they’re targeting teachers.
8. Something else is that there’s a really calculated effort to silence teachers. There was a story a few months back where this teacher in Pennsylvania was fired for talking about her students on her blog, but she didn’t use her full name or any student names. It’s also the reason we’re not listing your name or school for this interview.
Teacher: Teachers are more under a microscope than they’ve ever been. I’m not using my name or school name for this interview but I still wouldn’t be surprised if I receive some kind of “talking to” about giving an interview to my own son [laughter]. Whenever you deal with education, people use the kids as a shield. Like “Well, you know, a kid might get upset if they see this,” and most kids in America are just not that sensitive. They treat kids like they’re made of glass, but they treat us like we’re made of dirt.
9. What’s been one of the biggest changes since you first started teaching?
Teacher: The kids. I still love kids and still love teaching. I’ll probably always love it. But students are much different than they were. Back then you might have a kid, and if he was really disrespectful he’d tell you to shut up. Today, there are several kids in a grade that think nothing of cursing you out. And this is suburban Alabama, not the Bronx, so there’s been a really big erosion of discipline.
10. Why do you think that is?
Teacher: You could say it’s a lot of things like just cultural changes or the media now seems to promote bad behavior. Certainly Jersey Shore isn’t Happy Days and kids don’t have a lot of role models that would go on television with a big cheesy grin and say “Remember now, respect your teachers.”
11. What about the parents?
Teacher: I try not to talk about them because I might get sued [laughter]. And that’s a big part of the problem. Ultimately, their attitudes towards teachers have changed. Back then, you really had their support and now some don’t back you up at all. It’s a cliche but when teachers say “If a kid got in trouble at school, you could bet they’d get twice as bad at home” it was true. Today, if a kid gets in trouble at school, the parents want to know why their kid was singled out. Their kid says they were just defending themselves when they were the bully or that they weren’t the only ones throwing paper, and their parent is like “Why is Jimmy being punished when he says Timmy was the one who started it?” Not taking into account that a kid will say literally anything to get out of trouble. If I had a nickel for every time a kid said “That was totally my fault and I deserve to be punished more than anyone else” I would have zero nickels.
12. On the site I’m big about saying adults have never been more childish. Kids obviously learn by example.
Teacher: No comment, consult my attorney because you’re pushing entrapment [laughter]. I just know that we’ve never had to worry about lawsuits as much as we have now. Some parents–not many at all but some–are almost looking for them. Their kid is in trouble a lot, and you can never find their parents. Then you punish their kid, and they’re the first ones up there raising cane.
I definitely don’t want to give off the impression that parents aren’t doing what they’re supposed to be doing. Most of them are, absolutely, but too many parents don’t realize that education doesn’t end at school. A teacher can assign homework, but unless the parent really emphasizes a need for them to do it, we can’t make them do it. If my kid couldn’t read in the 6th grade, I would be concerned, more than concerned. But now a lot of students see all this reality TV and think “I don’t have to learn how to read or do Math, I’ll be a superstar anyway.” It’s a dangerous message, but only your parent can really break you of that. People can talk in a circle about teacher performance or tenure, but every study has said parental involvement is the number 1 factor in a child’s success at school.
13. You feel like school has been watered down since you first started?
Teacher: No question about it. For a while it got harder as we just learned a lot more about science and the textbooks got updated, but for elementary education the standards are lower. If a kid doesn’t do something, they might just give them a D anyway. Kids don’t really fail anymore, because, again, schools are very political. If a teacher fails too many kids she’s going to get in trouble with her principal because that principal is going to get in trouble with their superintendent because that superintendent is going to get in trouble with their state superintendent and it just goes all the way up to the federal level where schools with lower failure rates get more federal money. It’s become bad on a teacher’s part to fail a kid, so you might find a 10th grade student who can’t read, but has passed every grade up to that point.
And then we could do a whole separate interview about how bad No Child Left Behind has hurt the schools. That bill needs to be put in its proper place: a trash can.
14. What would you like to say about what would happen if the union were to fall apart?
Teacher: Saying it would be bad would be an understatement. A lot of the newer teachers really take the AEA and everything they fought for for granted. They just sort of shoulder shrug or believe the propaganda out there about teacher unions and actually think it would be a good thing [laughter]. Some of them believe the lie that if the union is gone, the “good” teachers will get paid more than the “bad” teachers, not realizing that if the union is gone it will mean less pay for ALL teachers.
I’ve been teaching since before the union was around and it wasn’t that the “good” teachers made double the salary of the “bad” teachers. It was that all teachers made a wage that qualified us for food stamps. I’m not kidding, when I first started teaching I could have qualified for welfare. The newer teachers need to look at my first teaching check because it would make them cry.
And it isn’t just newer teachers necessarily. Recently, another teacher who’s been doing it quite a while or at least long enough to know better argued with me about saying the new legislature is targeting teachers. Well what else would you call it when they’re after your union, your benefits, and your tenure?
Also, a lot of teachers know that AEA is the only legal representation they’ll get if a kid sues them. The school system doesn’t provide you with a lawyer. It’s cheaper for them to fire you and hope for the best. If you get a lawyer not out of your own pocket, it’ll be provided to you by AEA and no one else.
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve devoted my life to teaching and love it. I can’t say I wouldn’t do it again if I had a choice. It’s been worth it for sure, and I’ll probably have forty years by the time it’s all over with. But I’m not looking to go backwards. Teachers are already known for being underpaid, and they want to take more away from us? Madness. But things don’t just happen in a vacuum. Anything you do that hurts the teachers will eventually hurt the kids.
Tell it sister
People could learn a lot from this interview, especially how bad No Child Left Behind sucks
I think some of the harsh laws targeting teachers will really backfire on the GOP next year.
Your mum’s dedication to her trade is outstanding. She should be running to lead the AEA teachers union. Republicans have a bullseye on education hence we need strong leaders like your mum to protect our children’s future.
I love it! It is time that teachers started speaking out. They are professional. BS because they have NEVER been given the same treatment as business professional. Why don’t we see that the children are our future?
I am retired and thank goodness, I am. Times are SO different from when I taught. Why do politics belong in education? A good teacher is a rare find but in my last years of teaching only the BAD teachers got promoted. It was not because of tenure, it was because the principals hired BAD teachers because of political reasons. They were told such and so needed a job and even tho they were NOT good teachers they just kept teaching because the super or principal was given favorites.
This just breaks my heart. My sister just started teaching this year. I hope this shit eats the GOP inside and out. How dare they….
Seeing the changes that are happening in Wisconsin, I’m truly frightened by what lies ahead.
I love this interview. Everything said is so true. I am from a teacher family and NO ONE in my family wants to be a teacher. I have 2 children out of 3 out of college and they all are staying CLEAR of education. Why is that? This interview touches on it. No one wants to discipline and no one wants teachers to do it either and these conditions NO ONE can teach.
I wanted to be a teacher. That’s been my dream job for as long as I can remember. But there’s no way I would go into teaching with the way it is now. I think our children will miss out on some amazing teachers who just can’t risk going into such an unstable career right now.
Gov. Bentley just signed a bill that basically does away with tenure. What is going on in this country? Does anyone NOT see what is wrong with education in this country and why education is so behind in this country. Teachers can’t do anything right because the higher ups that never step foot in a classroom are always telling teachers HOW to do something that they don’t have a clue about. If they would quit worrying about test scores and let teachers teach THEN and only then could education get better. NOW teachers in Alabama have to worry about keeping their jobs as well as all the other crap that we have to put up with. Thanks Gov. Bentley—-I will be sure to NEVER vote Republican again.
Again and again teachers get blamed for no parenting going on at home. Superintendents expect test scores to be up there when alot of children just need their basic needs met. Education is not at the top of their list.
Get real. Teachers can’t discipline and the rest of the children in the classroom can’t learn because of some mentally challenged kid. We use to have schools for those kids so the other 29 could actually learn something.