Today we’re going to be talking with a recent survivor of the tornadoes that ripped through the state of Alabama, Brett Hamock, a Tuscaloosa based lawyer with Hamock & Ellenberg. We’re going to talk about the realities of owning your own business, Alabama’s business laws, life post-tornado, and if Obama did a good job with the post tornado relief effort.
1. Thanks for coming. We’re going to talk about the tornadoes but just to put this in context for people, you recently graduated law school from the University of Alabama, you had to wait a few months to take the bar and get the results back, you finally get the results back that says you can practice law after all these years of acing exams at school, and then a tornado hits your practice and apartment. Are you kind of thinking “What did I do wrong?”
Brett: To be completely honest with you, I have always viewed natural disasters in terms of odds. Obviously, the odds of getting slammed by one are greater in some locations than others. Tornado warnings are fairly routine in Tuscaloosa, and most people just grab some beers and try to chase them. In hindsight, I cannot describe how incredibly stupid it is to do that. I always knew there was some chance I would be caught by one in Tuscaloosa, but I had no idea that I would take an EF4 right in the face and live to tell about it. Some people might question what they have done wrong, but after I crawled out of that debris I wondered what I had done right to deserve to live through that ordeal while some of my neighbors died.
2. Wow, I had no idea it was that bad. I assumed you were out of Tuscaloosa when it happened. As a first year lawyer, how crucial is that first year and how much of a setback are the tornadoes?
Brett: The truth is that getting your name out there is like planting a crop. You have to constantly go throw your name out there like you are planting crops for the future. As a first year attorney, it should not be surprising that many people you know will not want you to handle their legal work. Many people fear that you might not have the experience to handle their case even though it is incredibly simple. I’ve had family members choose to use other attorneys for basic tasks that I could have done for less money. It is just part of the game. Some of these people won’t think that you have enough experience to handle their case until you are too busy to talk to them. It is just the way that the game works.
3. A lot of people reading this might want to open their own business one day, what advice would you give them?
Brett: Being an entrepreneur is not all fun and games. Honestly, I work weirder hours than my friends who work for big firms. I do not have a guaranteed paycheck. I have no oversight. I have no idea that I screwed something up until I get yelled at by a judge. I have nobody making sure that I am putting in the necessary hours. BUT, if you are stubborn, hellbent on working for yourself, and you don’t mind if you don’t have a steady income stream, there is no better job in the world. I would say a few things. 1) Do not listen to what anyone says, and really don’t tell people that you are starting a business. Just go start your business and put in work. I don’t think any of my friends believed I would make it in this business from scratch with no money, experience, or outside financial backing. 2) Make a solid business plan. 3) Line up a second job that you can at least make enough money to buy some food if things go awry. 4) Know your trade inside and out. Most of our success has come from doing a good job on the cases that we get. 5) Do what you say you are going to do. If you say you are going to call someone back, then call them back that day.
4. What has been the most surprising thing about being your own boss? What has been something that might be easier than you expected and something that might be harder?
Brett: I have been shocked by who has been willing to help the firm and who has not. My extended family has been split on the issue. Some of them have been very helpful. These people have sent me cases, introduced me to people, or just taken the time to ask me how things are going. I definitely appreciate that. Some of my extended family members have not been helpful at all. I have one member of my family who has actively tried to hinder my progress by talking bad about me to anyone that will listen even though I don’t even know her that well. It is mind boggling. The actual legal work has been easier than I thought it would be. If I do not know how to do something, it really doesn’t take that long to do the research to figure out how to do it properly. The most difficult part has been the random hours. I have to take every phone call from an unknown number right now. That is how I have gotten some of my best cases.
5. Talk about some of Alabama’s business laws. All two of them. The state is pretty famous for a deregulated atmosphere that could not be more favorable to business owners over workers.
Wow. I thought you would never ask. At my firm, we have gotten into some personal injury cases and some Worker’s Compensation Cases. I love doing this type of work because many times these people have no idea what their rights are once they are injured on the job. Worker’s Comp in Alabama is extremely messed up. Basically, you can get Worker’s Comp for damages for on the job injuries in the vast majority of cases. In order to sue for a personal injury other than Worker’s Comp in this state, you have to show that the employer intentionally harmed the Plaintiff. This creates a moral hazard for employers who just don’t care about their workers. The employer can make them do tasks with a reckless disregard for the safety of their employees with no punitive repercussions outside of Worker’s Comp so long as they can show that they didn’t do it on purpose. Basically, the Worker’s Comp laws in Alabama are skewed to favor the Employer.
6. Also, Alabama is known for some very lax tenant laws that do not favor renters. As a renter of both your apartment and the commercial property your business was on, what can renters expect in Alabama? Do the laws make it easy for a slumlord?
Brett: Residential renters are “protected” by the Alabama Landlord Tenant Act. Basically, this provides limits on the amount of security deposit owed, unconscionable clauses in leases, and sets basic restrictions for what a landlord can do in certain situation. It also prescribes what a landlord can charge for damages out of the security deposit. The only problem with this is that the law has no teeth. Since most sections of this Act do not provide provisions to collect attorneys fees, most tenants in Alabama cannot collect when wronged because it will cost more money in legal fees than the amount recovered. More liberal states allow damages + reasonable attorneys fees. Obviously, this gives low income renters a chance to collect that they would not have in Alabama.
7. Alabama is a right to work state meaning an employer can and will fire you for anything. There are just few protections for workers in general and unions are almost non-existent. Could you make the case that it is better to own a business in Alabama than to work for one?
Brett: Without a doubt it is better to own a business in Alabama than to work for one. When you take into account the tax breaks that you can receive, there is no question which one is better. Consider it like this, if you make $30,000 per year, taxes must still be taken out, so you walk away with more like $18,000-$20,000 after taxes. Then you must pay for all of your bills/personal spending. So after bills, maybe you walk away with a few thousand. If you own your own business, you can shoulder many of your personal expenses into a deduction for business expenses so long as you are using it primarily for a business purpose. I realize that I hijacked your question, but I think that is the important issue that most people miss. This is also important when you take that into account that you can be fired at any time for no reason. It is very hard to prove discrimination actions and most of them fail. Basically, if you get fired, there is little recourse except if you have a specific statutory retaliation claim.
8. For those that might not know, Alabama was recently wrecked by a 140 tornadoes in a single day. The entire state was affected in some way but your city of Tuscaloosa was particularly hit hard. Take us through it.
Brett: I lost almost everything. I have like 5 minutes warning, maybe. I grabbed my cell phone when I took cover. By the time the storm was over, there was nothing left around me but a pile of rubble. I took an EF4 right in the face. The emergency workers told us another tornado was coming, so we had to get out of there. That structure barely stood up to the first hit, so it certainly couldn’t have taken another direct hit. We wandered around for about 24-36 hours before we got out of town. It was like a third world country down there. People were running around screaming and it was total chaos. We found some people that we knew to stay with, and then we went back to the rubble to try to claim anything of ours that we could find. We left to go stay with friends in Birmingham after that, and we stayed in Birmingham for 2 days until we could get into our old structure to try to reclaim our stuff. I don’t really know what I felt to be honest with you because I was in shock until a few days ago.
9. Will you relocate to Birmingham now or wait a few months and head back to Tuscaloosa?
Brett: I plan to stay in Birmingham permanently. We have new office space here in Birmingham, and we have some space in Tuscaloosa as well. I will probably split time 50/50 between Birmingham and Tuscaloosa.
10. Talk about the FEMA response to this tragedy. Bush famously bungled Katrina and it took him a full two weeks to even set foot in New Orleans. Obama was there in 48 hours. Bush also appointed someone with no disaster experience while Obama went with the most qualified person. I know some people in Alabama will hate him no matter what, but do you think they are secretly glad he’s president when the shit really hits the fan?
Brett: FEMA and SBA have been great. President Obama toured the area and set the wheels in motion to get FEMA funds early. It is a lot of hassle to deal with them as government entities, but everyone that I have spoken to is just a genuinely nice person. They actually care whether or not that we can rebuild, and they have made the process as easy as they possibly can. The disaster was handled as well as it could have been handled by the Federal Government. A lot of people in Alabama do not like the President for whatever reason, but no one can claim that he doesn’t care about the people in this state after this response. It blows my mind how people in this state complain about getting free money from FEMA, but then they do not even thank the President who had to declare it a disaster area to get the free money. Everyone always feels like FEMA should have given them more. The truth is that we are lucky to have any assistance at all. FEMA is not a personal property insurance company. These same people will probably vote Republican in the next election even though a Republican would have been more stingy with money. It really exposes the hypocrisy of the Republican Party. “We shouldn’t spend government money…unless it is for something that I specifically want to spend it on that will benefit me…then it is ok.” These are probably the same people who would complain about the government allowing SSI payments to disabled people who didn’t pay into Social Security.
11. On a human level, what has surprised you the most about this tragedy? Have some people helped that you never thought would and others been very indifferent that you expected more out of?
Brett: It has surprised me how people act during this tragedy. There are 3 types of people in a tragedy. 1) The people that help you, and legitimately want to help you. 2) The people who say they want to help you, but they have no intention of actually doing so. They are only saying this to make themselves feel better about what happened. 3) The people who ignore you, and they act like you do not exist post-disaster. I am shocked how many people I know have just pretended like this whole thing never happened. I am also shocked how many people drove to Tuscaloosa to look at the damage. I felt like an animal at a zoo. People drove down to watch me dig through my stuff to see if I find anything. “Oh wow, look….it looks like he found an old picture.” Also, it really made me mad that CNN was around my destroyed structure trying to find someone to interview. The girl was asking people walking around, “How do you feel? Would you like to do an interview?” I know she was just doing her job, but she almost got hit by one of my neighbors for asking such a stupid question. How was he supposed to feel after almost dying in a major natural disaster? Indifferent? Ecstatic? Perplexed? Give me a fucking break. I will be fine, but I will never forget living like an animal in the immediate aftermath. It was very eye-opening, and I definitely feel like I understand the situations other people live in a little bit better.
12. What advice would you give to anyone going through a tornado or any other natural disaster? Both during it and after when it comes time to pick up the pieces.
Brett: My advice is to just stay calm. It takes months to make life normal again, and a person just has to realize that. Set a list of goals to accomplish every day. Accomplish those goals, and then work towards moving on. You will find out who your true friends are during a time of tragedy. Remember who offered to help you. Also, I plan to help other disaster victims in any way possible when I get back on my feet. After you get slammed with tragedy, you will have a common bond with people who have felt the same sting. I appreciate the opportunity to do this interview, and I hope it hasn’t been completely incoherent.
Alabama Liberal: The website for Brett’s law office is www.heattorneys.com, check it out, and throw him some business if you live in the Alabama area.
Great interview. Hang in there. A law degree from Alabama is a good one. Things will get better.